I’m preordering the Lionel AF AT&SF PA-1s (SF freight colors) from 2009 Vol. 2. This is the first time I remember Lionel offering the PA-1 for separate sale without the cars. Wondered why Lionel chose this fantasy paint scheme until I saw in David Doyle’s AF buyers guide that this color scheme can be worth up to $1200.

I was surprised by their choice of this scheme as well. There are still some prototypical paint schemes they haven't done (Nickel Plate Road, D&RGW, Lehigh Valley, etc). Just weird that they would offer a freight scheme on a passenger diesel, and then paint passenger cars to match that paint scheme.

In the past, back when AF was just re-introduced, the Alco engines and cars were only available separately. Most people chose to purchase them as sets, but if you just wanted the engines you could get them.

I probably will not be ordering anything out of this catalog. Some of the freight cars are nice looking, but not worth the $70 MSRP,or even the street price of probably $50 to me.

“In the past, back when AF was just re-introduced, the Alco engines and cars were only available separately”

Guess your knowledge of AF/Lionel is better than mine. Raised on AF instead of Lionel but as an adult have grown to prefer Lionel. But for nostalgia reasons have started to buy some new AF. After trying the NYC dockside set decided to buy the UP FEF-1 reissue in gray with smoke lifters and was pleased. Always wanted that engine as a kid. Then purchase my next “must have” the NH EP-5 but unfortunately is back at Lionel now for warranty work. The other two AF locos that are desirable to me are an PA-1 which will be preordered and a NYC J3-A Hudson which hopefully Lionel will reissue one day.

quote:

I’m preordering the Lionel AF AT&SF PA-1s (SF freight colors) from 2009 Vol. 2. This is the first time I remember Lionel offering the PA-1 for separate sale without the cars. Wondered why Lionel chose this fantasy paint scheme until I saw in David Doyle’s AF buyers guide that this color scheme can be worth up to $1200.

Please take note that the vintage Gilbert PA-PB-PAs (1956 - 58) were done with black rooves while the new PAs have blue rooves and a red stripe along the top at the roof line. The style of the emblem on the nose is different, too. As a consequence, the collector desirability of the vintage Gilberts will be most likely maintained. One can, of course, buy the new engines to use as freight engines and pass on the passenger cars.

The D&RG PA pair, which was intended to be matched with the WP California Zephyr set, was offered (cataloged) as a seperate PA pair, but were never built. Early on when Lionel (MPC and early LTI) issued PA "sets" (B&O, SP, Erie, Wabash, and C&O) they were not boxed as such in a single set box (as mentioned above). Consequently, the engines could be readily purchased separately in a "break up" (particulalry the freight sets) from many willing dealers.

Bob Bubeck

Think Lionel reissues what models has the highest collectable value for the original issue. Case in point - the CC reissue of the B&O RDCs made for only one year and not in much demand with people who actually run toy trains but Doyle says they are worth up to $5000 in LN condition. Although my preference would be the NKP road I just want new AF PA’s to run .

I just ordered the NH EP-5 from Gryzboskis. What went wrong with yours? I hope I don't get a lemon. I also have the CN GP9 and PRR Docksider coming.

My EP-5 after about 3 hours of running started to get very warm. After about another hour it would get hot and run in only one direction. While packaging the loco for shipment back to Lionel noticed the heat had caused a void to appear on one side of the body and it rattled when shaken like a screw had come unfastened. By the way it comes with a bell as well as a horn and little actuator to operate the bell if you have a older transformer.

On the brighter side, my sample of the new NH EP-5 (6-48075) has been on the layout for 3 months with no problems. With two motors and the new 6-wheel drive truck design, the newest version is smoother, quieter, and more powerful than the older LTI 6-48008 NH EP-5 from 1991. Nostalgia aside, it is functionally superior to the venerable Gilbert No. 499, as well. The new PA heading up my sample of the new Freedom Train (again, with 2 motors and the new 6 wheel drive) has been without fault for 8 months.

Sincerely hope that your problems are resolved quickly, ns.

Bob Bubeck

I see that Lionel has changed the livery on the Erie bay window caboose in their online product index from what it was in the catalog:



I think I like the one that was in the catalog better.

I'm sorry your EP-5 developed trouble. I have one of the new SD's and it runs great - smooth, relatively quiet and cool.

As far as what I'll be ordering from the new catalog of offerings, since I've retired, my train purchases have been severely curtailed. I already have the GN stock car as part of a great looking GN train headed by either the GN geep or the electric that was offered a few years ago. I like the catalog art boxcar (6-48381) simply because it has a nostalgia look to it and may even fit in with the American Flyer commemorative train I have. However, I will probably only order the Sunoco tank car (6-48431)even though it has the chemical car platform. Both trains I mentioned will be at the 2010 Spring S Spree.

Jerry Poniatowski
Registrar, 2010 S Spree
Darborn, MI

Thanks guys for wishing me well with my sick EP-5. Soon as it is returned to me fully recovered from its “Chinese Flu” I’ll do the PA-1 preorder. Changing the subject it’s my understanding that when Lionel started making AF PA-1s in the 80’s that for a time they used the original AF style motor and drive train. Were they better than the current can motor variety? Also, does anybody remember about 87 after Kughn had taken over that in the advanced Cat. he showed the reissue of the AF Hudson and for the first year the road names were to be Wabash and SF. But when the catalogue was issued the Hudson had been replaced by a PA-1. The word was that not enough preorders were received . Was all set to order the engine - hope it’s redone someday.

I assume the PA's will have the new 6-wheel power trucks.

I believe only the first run of Lionel PA's had the original Gilbert Engine and drive train. The can motors in my opinion are far superior to the original AC motors. Jerry

ns101 - I remember that the price was set so much higher than available used hudsons sold for that it was no surprise they would no would get very few orders.

I bet that back then, a lot of AF guys didn't know how Lionel's system of per-order worked. I didn't. It WOULD be nice to see it offered again. Sales would be different. I always thought of the Hudson as the best proportioned steam locomotive ever produced.

The U33C is VERY nice, and perhaps I'll try to get one when I get a few more bucks. But for now, I'll be content to salvage junkers and bring them back to life.

Jerry

I believe low pre-orders is what killed the SD40-2 a few years ago also. I think if Lionel offered it again, it would be a big seller.

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I see that Lionel has changed the livery on the Erie bay window caboose in their online product index from what it was in the catalog:

I inquired with Lionel (with a colleague who does know) about this and the reply is that there is no plans to change the appearance of the Erie caboose from what is shown in the catalog. So, the picture in the web site Product Finder is in error. Whew!

Bob Bubeck

Poniai is correct - a lot of people did not know about or do preorders back in 87. I thought backorder was the term used then anyway. Even Athearn in HO (Horizon Hobbies) is encouraging preorders now. Don’t think the importers want to get stuck with excess inventory.

Looks like Lionel can't get the parts to fix my NH EP-5 as just got this from them in an email -

Hi,

We do not have any replacements for your unit available at all,
unfortunately. They were waiting to see if we could get one, but they
are now in the process of issuing you a refund. You should be getting
it within a few weeks.

Thanks
Lionel Tech.