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The O Gauge Railroading On-Line Forum Buy/Sell/Wanted GOT IT! MTH 5 & 2 Car Cincinnatian Sets and Weaver Cincinnatian steam locomotive|
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After a recent visit to the Cincinati Union Terminal museum, I found a book on the Cincinnatian Passenger train. I am now looking for the following items:
Weaver #1079 B&O Cincinnatian 4-6-2 Steam engine MTH B&O Cincinnatian 5-Car Pass. Set #20-6511 MTH B&O Cincinnatian 2-Car Pass. Set #20-6611 Add-On Please email me at: jim@ogaugerr.com UPDATE 8/21/09: Thanks to the Forum, I have made contact with a Forum member who has exactly what I want, and we have closed the deal. Thanks to everyone who sent in tips, suggestions, and other information. Rick Wright, I now have a major project ahead of me, thanks to your tips on retrofitting the coach interiors with seats and people. This message has been edited. Last edited by: Jim Barrett, |
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Hi Jim,
I'll keep my eyes peeled for those cars for you. The B&O bug bit me about 2 years ago. Check out my YouTube videos with a Lionel B&O President Harrison Pacific and a set of MTH B&O E8's. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...oGbo&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEJap3mXUoo Regards Chas |
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Chas,
Looks great! That's the first time I've seen the MTH Greyhound station going through its cycle of the sign graphics out front. Great video! Does anyone know if there were additional sets of Cincinnatian passenger cars other than the ones I've itemized? Someone told me that there were two different lengths of passenger cars. Is that so? I'm looking for the 18" cars if there is more than one length. Jim Barrett |
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Weaver did the Cincinnatian Pacific loco in 1995. They released a 20 inch set of passenger cars in 1999.
Cars were: (excuse the caps, copied from Weaver's Archives website) SLEEPER CAR - MONOCACY DINER CAR - EDEN PARK BAGGAGE CAR - 1309 COACH CAR - INDIAN HILL OBSERVATION CAR - FOUNTAIN SQUARE DRUMHEAD - CINCINNATIAN Bob Bartizek  |
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Actually, the Cincinnatian cars are 18 inches in length (no vista dome). An earlier set with 15-inch cars was also produced (has a vista dome). Only the basic five-car set and the two-car add-on set were produced. THESE ARE THE ONLY TWO PASSENGER CAR SETS WITH THE CORRECT CINCINNATIAN LIGHT GRAY PIN STRIPES. There are no yellow stripes on these cars.
Beware, the locomotive was produced with QSI sound and some were made without sound for $100 less. Buy accordingly. Following Rick Wright's and B&OEastEnd's examples, I plan to convert my no-sound P7d loco to PS2.   |
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Hi Jim,
Those 7 cars were the only 18" B&O cars in aluminum that MTH made. They made several sets of 18" ABS cars, some ribbed and some smooth side with different paint schemes. They all had at least a sleeper/diner add on set. I believe some sets had as many as 5 add ons. I believe there is an MTH B&O 18" heavyweight 5 car set with interiors that has a sleeper/diner add on set. I am not sure of the train names on the observation cars of the ABS sets? Check out the YouTube videos of the real Cincinnatian and other B&O in action. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyoOTgqM76Q http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbCFdocYkiA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...xo2w&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...2sFA&feature=related Enjoy Chas |
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I am not sure what year my Weaver 20 inch cars are, but the drumheads on my 2 sets are the National. I am looking for a set of Weaver B&O 20 inch 2 car add ons. |
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If anyone is interested I am selling a B&O MTH Premier E8 ABA with 10 passenger cars. Engines are proto 1.Very nice set.Listing is in Buy/Sell under dd40ax. No reasonable offer refused.
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Thanks to everyone for the information updates. I'm learning more and more about this train.
Chas; when you say that MTH made several sets of 18" ABS cars, do you mean that they made at least one of those sets in the correct Cincinnatian paint scheme? ChessieMan; I too plan to convert the locomotive to PS2, so if there is one you know of without sound, that would be my favorite candidate to convert. Jim Barrett |
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Jim, as Chessie Man indicated above, I do have the Weaver 4-6-2 and both the five car and two car "Cincinnatian" 18" metal cars made by MTH years ago. I tore out the silhoutte strips and refitted the cars with clear plastic windows. Also added diaphragms with the original cars did not have, and repainted the trucks black.
Ron at EngineHouse Hobbies installed the PS-2 sound and control system, using the USRA Erie heavy Pacific sound file. That brass tender makes the best single "sound box" I have on any locomotive I own. At my annual open house, I always get requests to "run that engine with the beautiful whistle." Although I run numerous regions and railroads in a year's time on CONUS Lines, I always run B&O for special occasions. "The Cincinnatian" was a big hit when I hosted Scale O National Convention attendees in June. Being a Queen City native, and fondly remembering every Christmas down at the CG&E B&O layout from 1954-1969, I'm particularly proud of my "Cincinnatian." Good luck on your quest. It's well worth the effort...and the coin of the realm. Rick |
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Hi Rick,
Wow. Now I want that set more than ever. Thanks for the information on the sound file as well. That is what I'll add to mine when (and "if") I get it. A couple of questions: 1. What was the product number on the two car "Cincinnatian 18" add on set? Was it also 20-6511 or did it have a separate number? 2. Do the two add on cars have names on the car sides reflecting communities in Cincinnati as some of the cars in the 5 car set? 3. Whose diaphrams did you add to the cars? Jim Barrett |
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Jim,
I have this engine and I converted it to ps-2. I used the Railking B&O Pacific sound file and by setting the chuff rate to 3 I get 4 chuffs. The MTH smoke unit is an easy fit along with green classification leds. According to the research I did on the Cincinattian, it only ran as a 5 car train so as to avoid the use of a helper. There were 2 train sets made in house from converted heavyweights and they were painted Royal blue and gray with yellow lettering. The loco was painted a color called Bando blue. They switched the locos about mid way and picked up the freshly serviced one on the way back. I am running the Lionel 18" B&O painted aluminum cars behind mine and they have great interior detail with figures also. I'll watch for a loco for you. Eric Hofberg This message has been edited. Last edited by: chug, |
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Hi Jim,
The MTH MT-6511 B&O 18" Aluminum Sleeper/Diner would be the "Walnut Hills" sleeper and the "College Hills" diner. http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/6558474 There are some sets I cut and pasted some information from the MTH website on a B&O ABS 18" 5 car set, 2 car add ons, and a full dome add on. I am not sure if B&O kept the "Fountain Square" observation on the Cincinnatian during that trains existence and whether or not MTH modeled the ABS Fountain Square observation as the Cincinnatian? 20-65097 Baltimore & Ohio Premier Original MSRP $399.95 2006 Volume 2 Catalog (cu) 5-Car 70' ABS Passenger Set (Smooth) - Baltimore & Ohio Baggage - 687 Coach 1 - 3565 Coach 2 - 3567 Vista - Strata Club, 5550 Observation - Fountain Square http://www.mth-railking.com/detail.asp?item=20-65097 Dealers The following dealers meet your selection criteria. Click the Show button next to a dealer to get more detailed contact information for the dealer (and to see what items are in stock, if you requested any). Name City State Zip GRAND CENTRAL LTD. LINCOLN NE 68507 DIXIE UNION STATION MASON OH 45040 VALLEY FARM MARKET WEEDVILLE PA 15868 2-Car 70' ABS Slpr/Diner Passenger Set - (Smooth) - Baltimore & Ohio Sleeper - Sagamon Diner - 1083 Item: 2-Car 70' ABS Slpr/Diner Passenger Set (Smooth) Catalog: 2006 Volume 2 Catalog (cu) Product Line: Premier Item Number: 20-66097 Roadname: Baltimore & Ohio http://www.mth-railking.com/ds...me.asp?item=20-66097 20-67097 Baltimore & Ohio Premier Original MSRP $79.95 2006 Volume 2 Catalog (cu) 70' ABS Full Length Vista Dome Passenger Car - (Smooth) - Baltimore & Ohio Car Name - Havre de Grace http://www.mth-railking.com/detail.asp?item=20-67097 Dealers The following dealers meet your selection criteria. Click the Show button next to a dealer to get more detailed contact information for the dealer (and to see what items are in stock, if you requested any). Name City State Zip WESTERN DEPOT YUBA CITY CA 95993 GRAND CENTRAL LTD. LINCOLN NE 68507 DIXIE UNION STATION MASON OH 45040 VALLEY FARM MARKET WEEDVILLE PA 15868 Good Luck! Chas This message has been edited. Last edited by: Chas, |
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By the way Jim,
There is for sale on that auction site, a very sexy looking scale Lionel B&O 4-6-2 President Harrison Locomotive & Tender #28066 in box. Chas |
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Jim, the 5-car set was #20-6511, and the 2-car "add-on" set was #20-6611.
The cars in the 5-car set were baggage #1301, coach "Norwood," coach "Hyde Park," coach "Oakley" and observation "Fountain Square." The cars in the 2-car set were sleeper "Walnut Hills" and diner "College Hill." I had hoped that one of the cars would be "Winton Place," my favorite railfanning spot in the city, but alas, it was not to be. As Chessie Man noted above, these cars were painted correctly. All the lettering is in aluminum, and matches the lettering color on the Weaver Pacific perfectly. And as near as I can tell, the Weaver Pacific is also correctly painted. The diaphragms I added to the car ends I purchased from MTH, along with a number of ABS coach interiors to modify to go in the coaches at a later date. When these sets originally arrived stateside, I was overseas. Then Desert Shield and Desert Storm intervened, and by the time I brought my destroyer back from the Red Sea and Arabian Gulf, they were not to be found, though I tried. Three years ago at a Howard Zane show in Timonium, someone had passed on...and his wife was selling his collection through a dealer. I saw the 5-car set...and opened the wallet immediately. Then last October in York I found the 2-car set buried in a bunch of 2-car set purple boxes that a dealer "just had to get rid of!" Needless to say, I helped him out. I subsequently weathered the sides of all the cars lightly, but hit the roofs a bit more heavily with Grimy Black/Rail Tie Brown in a 10% enamel/90% Floquil airbrush thinner solution to give the previously glossy black roofs that "sooty" look that had to have been gained with all the tunnels and coal traffic on the West End 1946-49. If I say so myself, they look great! I've talked with Mike at York about doing some more B&O power, but his concern is that it is so unique that it's difficult to sell in other roadnames. Perhaps when the economy improves, we'll see an EM-1 or Q3. One can only hope. But in the meantime, I'm more than happy with my "Cincinnatian." Rick |
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Rick,
AAUGH! You're killing me with all these subtile finish improvements! Everything you described is just what I'd do when I get the cars and loco. My wife thinks I'm nuts. Thanks too for the tip on the diaphram source. I'll keep plugging and find this engine and cars somehow. I also talked to Andy Edeleman at MTH, begging him to make the locomotive and cars but he says basically the same thing you got from Mike. Too unique, and not enough familiarity with the buying public. I'm intrigued by your proposed project to retrofit interiors into these coaches. Have you done any preliminary attempts to fit the interiors up yet? Do they look "close"? If you find that you can make them work, please pass on the part number for the interiors you got from MTH, OK? Jim Barrett |
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Jim,
I have Dr. B's Cincinnatian and passenger cars. My recent divorce is forcing me to put them up for sale. Call me at 513-608-9446 if you are interested. I will want visitation rights if you purchase them. Tom Murphy |
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Tom,
Good talking to you on the phone, but since your cars turned out to be the ABS 20" ones, I'll have to keep looking for the aluminum cars (#20-6511). I'm sure that someone who wants the ABS cars will contact you though. |
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Jim, re "The Cincinnatian" car interiors, I order six sets of the interiors of the MTH "Madison" heavyweight coaches when I order the diaphragms. I don't know the part #; I checked the interiors last night in the "projects still to be completed" box (you know, the one that keeps on growing and never shrinks!) and could find no identifying number.
I've rebuilt several MTH ABS passenger car interiors, utilizing basswood and styrene to change the interiors. My favorite conversion was using an MTH Heavyweight observation car to replicate FDR's personal car "Marco Polo" which is still at Washington's Union Station. I was a guest of Norfolk Southern the day the FDR Memorial was dedicated back in the mid-90's, and NS gave everyone a small book on "Marco Polo" replete with a diagram of the interior of the car. That was a fun project...and seeing FDR on the rear platform in his chair, cigarette holder tilted up at a 45 degree angle, accompanied by his dog Falah and a Secret Service man, is always a "crowd pleaser" at my open houses. (Note: Back then this car had a B&O drumhead, which stayed affixed when he went around the country in the 1938 mid-term election campaign. There is a famous shot of him on the rear platform of "Marco Polo" deep in the Royal Gorge gazing up at the suspension bridge. A B&O drumhead observation car, on the Denver & Rio Grande, with the President as Passenger #1. I love it!!) Back to the B&O's "Cincinnatian." When you get your MTH aluminum "Cincinnatian" cars you will find them a bit of a challenge to take apart, as the ABS ends pull out, and then you have to slide the metal floor out horizontally. It's a tight fit...and I cut my hand the first one I worked on. But you'll need to do this to get the silhoutte strips out...and new clear plastic ones in. My plan for "The Cincinnatian" interiors is to basically build them on a basswood "floor" which I will slide in and afix atop the metal floor on which the trucks are fixed. I'll fool around with the seat placement (I intend on cutting the MTH interiors in half, and then do further cutting and trimming until the seats match the windows and the diagrahms available in the "Cincinnatian" book. (I bought the interiors specifically for the coach seats). I'll build whatever walls, bathrooms, etc. are required from basswood, and again afix them on the basswood floor for insertion into the car. (All MTH ABS cars have removable roofs which makes interior conversions much easier, but as you know, these "Cincinnatian" 18" cars have only been made in aluminum). The observation car will be a bit more of a challenge, as the floor will have to be shaped and it has a different seating arrangement...but hey...that's what model railroading (regardless of scale) is all about! Rick |
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Rick,
Your project sounds very aggressive. I know what you mean about the difficulty taking them apart. I learned long ago to use a pair of pliers to pull out the metal floor pan on any of those aluminum cars. I too got a nasty cut trying to simply pull them out with my fingers. I mentioned this on another thread, but if you're interested in interiors and details of the original Cincinnatian train and car interiors, pick up a soft cover book called, "Baltimore And Ohio's Cincinnatian" by Thomas W. Dixon (TLC Publsihing Inc., 18292 Forest Rd., Forest, VA 24551 434-385-4076 www.therailroadbooks.com). It has lots of detailed builder photos of all the interiors, not to mention photos of trhe train in action. I thought I got lucky last night when another friend offered up his Cincinatian 5 car set and locomotive (no separate sale), but the 5 car set turned out to be the short 15" cars, one of which was a dome car style that the B&O never ran. Still looking for the Weaver #1079 Cincinnatian engine, the MTH 20-6511 5 car set and 20-6611 2 car add on set of passenger cars. Jim Barrett |
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Jim, did you set up an ebay watch list search for these yet? Dollars to doughnuts that some dealer or frequent private seller is combing the Internet for interest in things they have to sell and they will find your post and then offer these items on eBay before long, even if they have to look for estate sales themselves to find them first. That is basically what happened when I found my 1079 and 20-6511. Judging from the mutual responses from MTH, it appears highly unlikely we will see a new version of this train anytime soon in three rail.
Peter Bowler, Akron |
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Jim, yes I have "The Cincinnatian" book. Thank heavens for York and Howard Zane's shows. Between Rails 'N Shafts and Ron's Books, I've been able to keep my library up to date. I was also surprised at the number of booksellers and historical societies at the Train Festival at Owosso that I just returned from.
Also be aware that one of the Herron Rail Videos on the NYC in the Toledo area has nice footage of the Cincinnatian under steam when it was running the Detroit-Cincinnati route later in its life. These shows keep me "alive" in the hobby, as we have no good railroad hobby shops in Fairfax County. Good luck on your quest. It's well worth the time/effort/$$. Rick |
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Peter,
No, I haven't done that for ebay, but I did put in an Alert in the LiveAucitons.com site. I will also try the ebay site as well. Thanks Peter. Jim Barrett |
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Jim
Have Weaver, 1097 B&O Cincinnation 4-6-2 Steam Engine MTH, MT-6511 B&O Cincinnation 5-Car Passenger Set MTH, MT-6511 B&O Cincinnation 2-Car Passenger Set Asking $1250 (includes shipping). Please see profile for e-mail address. Thank you. |
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rick, Will you be retrofitting your cars with the appropriate six-wheel trucks? |
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Chessie Man, not right now...unless I can find some spare 6-axle trucks. I have given some thought to cannibalizing a set of my early MTH ABS heavyweight cars to do so...but it's still just that...a thought. Rick
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Hi Jim: When I use to go to the Great American Train Show and sometimes worked for Joe Davis, there was a guy down there once or twice a year that brought Scale Engines (especially steam) and all the passenger cars were reworked. Everytime he was down there the Cincinnatian and its cars (MTH) were down there. I am not sure what he did on the engine but I remember all the MTH trucks on the 18 inch
cars where wrong and he rebuilt the car with 6 wheel trucks. If he is reading this article, I hope he gets in contact with the railbear as his rebuilt Cincinnati Cars were beautiful. He might not be alive right now. Sincerely yours Ivan |
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Wow! Ivan! Where have you been? I haven't heard hide nor hair of you in years. Good to hear from you!
Jim and Kathie Barrett |
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UPDATE 8/21/09: Thanks to the Forum, I have made contact with a Forum member who has exactly what I want, and we have closed the deal. Thanks to everyone who sent in tips, suggestions, and other information. Rick Wright, I now have a major project ahead of me, thanks to your tips on retrofitting the coach interiors with seats and people.
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