I don't have enough photo references to track down the exact number for this locomotive. It was repainted before I got it. I'm guessing from the boiler shape, motor and the AF plates that it is from the later 1920s - 1930s. Was this originally just black, or did the engine have other colors/trim? I'd also like to know if it had side rods at one time? There are holes in the steam chest valves to take them. How would the side rods be spaced off the wheels?

There is a mounting bracket for an e-unit on the back of the motor, and it looks like there is enough room under the cab for one. Since I'm a "runner" it would be fun to add one.

Thanks for your help!

It's a 3195X

Sorry I hit reply before I was finished. If you go over to the other forum and look under the Classic Toy Trains section there is a thread on prewar flyer (Pre-War American Flyer Pictures - An Invitation) and on page 8 of that thread is a long post with pictures of your engine and its relatives.

Thanks, Mr. Butler!

quote:

I don't have enough photo references to track down the exact number for this locomotive. It was repainted before I got it. I'm guessing from the boiler shape, motor and the AF plates that it is from the later 1920s - 1930s. Was this originally just black, or did the engine have other colors/trim? I'd also like to know if it had side rods at one time? There are holes in the steam chest valves to take them. How would the side rods be spaced off the wheels?

Chris,

In deference to Mr Butler, I humbly submit that this is actually a 3182 from 1931.

The 3195 has one more dome behind the steam dome than the 3182. The 3195 also had a bell attached to the top of the headlight visor stamping. The cab roof extends further back than the 3195. The pilot and window arrangement was different as well. The loco would have originally had yellow trim paint on the cab side edges, window framing, and walkways along boiler. Probably gold (or maybe yellow)trim paint on top of stack as well as bottom of pilot.

There were no spacers on the single piece stamped (Plated) drive rods, just a shouldered screw holding it in place.

This loco would not have had an e unit.

The tender is interesting. It appears that it is a 3181 tender from 1931 only. What is different about it is that it has the screw holes on the side for the cast iron coal load, but has the sheet metal load and MOST UNUSUALLY a tail light.... rare for 1931 on this tender...

Does the loco have an oil wick between the brushes? If so this confirms 1931.

There are a million different configurations of Loco, boiler, tenders, frames, etc.

I have studied catalogs and have some other Flyer references. This one looks pretty solid to me.

Enjoy it.. BUT watch the drivers, they are notorious for failing, and are not currently replaceable to my knowledge.

Rob, your description is correct - and it is the description of the 3195X.

Except for the tender, and the headlight visor, and the reverse.

Thats it was is really making the difference here.

If you go over to the site I mentioned above you can see the two locomotives. If you check the Greenberg book you can see that on pp.77 of the second edition the paragraph with the heading "Comparison of Early and Late No. 3195" states the following:

1. "American Flyer Lines" replaces "3195" on the plate below the window. "3195X" is stamped on frame bottom (actually all I've seen have the stamping on the cab bottom).
2. Window design changes, although both have double windows.
3. The cast-on dome closest to the cab is removed, the shape of remaining domes changed to eliminate rivets around them.
4. Casting around the brush changed, more material added to the frame to form a frame around the brush plate.
5. The gear side of motor covered by additional casting (specifically the water pumps).
6. Gold highlighting of early version changes to red and finally (on the 3195X) to yellow.
7. Steam chest is wider, the sides are straight. No steps to the pilot, which is also widened.
8. Pilot design significantly different.

...and right below that we have 3182 Locomotive-Tender combination (Type III cast-iron engine, 3181 Type II tender): 1931

That tender has a black body, sheet metal coal load and "American Flyer" plates on the side. The number you are referring to is one of the many engine tender combination numbers that Flyer had during the period. Since Chris's tender is different there is a good chance there was an engine-tender number designation for it as well. The engine, however, is, as noted, 3195X.

OK.

Chris can settle the discussion by informing us as to the number of holes in the steam chest on each side. If there are 2 holes then I will agree that it is a 3195x. One hole means that it possibly is a different engine. The 3195x had diecast rods in 1931 and had a valve guide rod into the valve location and a rod into cylinder. The 3182 had only the sheet metal rod into the valve area.

I concur that the casting is identical... that much makes a lot of sense. Flyer would use these castings over and over.

What I am trying to communicate here is that Flyer used the same casting with many different tenders. Each different tender/loco combination became a different catalog number. In 1931 this loco casting (3195x)was used for only one catalog number-3182 and pulled the "Red Bird"

The 3195(no x) casting was cataloged as -3182,3192,3188 in 1931. For reference the same casting in 1930 was cataloged as-3192,3193,3195,3196. You can easily see where confusion develops, two different castings were called 3182 in 1931.

It is entirely possible that he has a 3195x with a mismatch tender.

I think we are discussing somantics here. a 3195x with this tender would have been called a 3182 in the 1931 catalog.

I appreciate your digging in here, I got me to dig out and slobber over the 1930 and 31 catalogs I have.

By the way Chris, I have the 3141 and 3142 red bird cars if you are interested in them. they are C6 and dirty I will sell them for a good price to you.

I thank both of you gentlemen for taking the time to provide such thorough research for me. I'm humbled by your collective and very detailed knowledge. The steam chest does have two holes on each side: a smaller hole on the top, and a larger opening on the bottom. At one point I wondered if the top ones were screw holes for mounting crosshead guides.

I can see I have a lot of reading to do. When the local library opens again after the 4th I'll head down and check out their Greenberg AF Prewar volume. I wish there was a volume of AF catalogs like the Greenberg volumes for Lionel... maybe I should pick-up one of those CD compilations I see from time to time.

Mr. English, I've got to take a peak at the redbird cars first - I may already have a set, but I'm still too dumb to know.

I'm very grateful for your expert assistance, and for sparking my curiosity.

Here's a couple more pictures.

Chris,

You are welcome to make a post like the one you initiated this thread with at any time! I enjoy the learning / refreshing the knowledge part of this hobby.


For pictures, look at David Doyle's Flyer book, page 389.... the red ones

R